Can Marketing Save the Planet?

Episode 44: How Marketers Can Tell a True Story about Climate Change with Seth Godin

“How are we (marketers) going to tell a true story about climate and our impact on the climate, so that we can change the systems in our lives, so that we tread more resiliently on the earth, and are more proud of what we are doing, and as a byproduct, build better communities with more equity and fairness?"

A question we explore in-depth with the marketing legend, Seth Godin.

It was an absolute pleasure talking to Seth, who really needs no introduction - entrepreneur, writer and one of the world's most famous bloggers and thinkers and more recently, coordinator and champion of 'The Carbon Almanac', a project he describes, "as the most important of his career".

This conversation as you would expect is full of insight, open and honest opinion and one which left us smiling. We talk about his latest project, 'The Carbon Almanac', an incredible book created by 300 people in 41 countries as part of a volunteer based project. “It’s a source of reliable and easily understandable knowledge on climate change…that you can share to create meaningful impact.” We talk about how the project was pulled together and Seth explains, that when it come to climate change, "we need to talk about it before we can do something about, but we can't talk about it if we don't understand it'. And we couldn’t agree more - education and awareness offer the essential spark to ignite action.

You’ll hear us unpack the 'tyranny of convenience' and talk climate shaming as well as delving into culture and community. And, we couldn't have a conversation with Seth without discussing the big question - ‘What is marketing?’

Seth asks some big questions such as "how are we (marketers) going to tell a true story about climate and our impact on the climate, so that we can change the systems in our lives, so that we tread more resiliently on the earth, and are more proud of what we are doing, and as a byproduct, build better communities with more equity and fairness?" And, as marketers, "how do you award status and affiliation to people who are working with you to change the system?" - Mind blown!

There is so much knowledge and wisdom packed into this episode, you just need to go and listen....we know you'll enjoy it as much as we did.

Huge thanks to Seth for his time and insights. Yet again, we learned so much - enjoy listening, tell us what you think - and reflect on what action it’s inspired you to take.

More about The Carbon Almanac Project here - https://thecarbonalmanac.org/ and of course for Seth’s blog and words of wisdom https://www.sethgodin.com/

No Awards on a Dead Planet - Marketing Activism - Gustav Martner, Head of Creative, Greenpeace Nordics

 

“Advertising can be important as it can make new ideas win and kick out old ideas – but campaigns aren’t trying to kick anything out – they’re just saying, you can have us as well. Where are the train campaigns that are aggressively going after the airliners, where are the co-owned car services that are aggressively going after the SUVs?”

 

Needless to say, we loved this conversation. We hear how the ‘do it yourself’ punk ethos led Gustav from founding a punk band to a successful award winning digital advertising agency with offices in Stockholm, Gothenberg and San Francisco.

Gustav tells us how he was fast becoming disillusioned with some of the campaigns he was working on - (broken hearted in some cases) - with assignments becoming less playful and far more commercial. “The internet was moving from being a distributed democratic playground into a cloud controlled user experience owned by a few players - giving them control over creativity and messaging - and that felt a bit scary and weird - and not the environment I really loved.”

This shift coincided with the release of Al Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’. And Gustav tells us that at that time, he saw CO2 reduction as an opportunity, not a threat. “Change felt like a good thing - I had no idea we wouldn’t embrace it - why wouldn’t we use this opportunity to create a better life.”

We hear about Gustav’s move from agency life to Greenpeace - the fossil fuel ad ban campaigns, the creative inspiration behind handing back his ‘Lion’ at the 2022 Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity and how that action struck an emotional chord with the industry, making headline news across ad land.

There’s a lot covered in our conversation beyond activism and we discuss the fundamental role of advertising and marketing - how people don’t understand how marketing works, how advertising changes behaviours, creating unnecessary desires and culture change to align with business models that are wrecking the planet, but with a focus on driving more profit.

Gustav shares examples of creative work and business remodelling concepts he championed - one example of how in 2007 he built the digital infrastructure for Scandinavian Airlines to become a ‘travel and meeting’ business - including CO2 reduction via train travel and online meetings. And how 2 years later the project was discontinued to refocus on short term profit.

“I got so many briefs that just made me want to puke - and I knew it was just going to get worse. I realised that unless we disrupt this from the outside, nothing is going to change. I had the privilege to do that - if you have the privilege to get out and disrupt from the outside, you should.”  

We discuss society, a simpler life, less focus on consumption, more focus on living, connecting, being. As Gustav shares…

“You need to change your lifestyle and it needs to be changed on a system level.”

Huge thanks to Gustav for his time and insights. Yet again, we learned so much - enjoy listening, tell us what you think.

Feeling challenged, motivated and ready to disrupt from the outside? Let us know.

More information about Greenpeace, the wonderful work they do and how you can support here.

You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 42: Sustainable Investments - Changing the narrative with Zach Stein, The Carbon Collective

“The fossil fuel industry is an industry in decline - being outcompeted by better technologies. The narrative we’re fighting against is that solving climate change is a sacrifice. We cannot afford not to have the best marketers around the world world focused on exactly this.”

A truly informative episode where we talk with Zach Stein, Co Founder of The Carbon Collective about the realities of sustainable investment - from a personal perspective.

Zach shares so many insights, backed up with real-world examples. What’s clear is that aligned with changing behaviour, we need to change the ingrained narratives around climate change - namely being, it’s not a sacrifice, but indeed an incredible opportunity - providing exciting opportunity for innovation and doing things differently. “The world isn’t going to up give air conditioning - we need to find ways to still have the lifestyles we have, but in a way that is not threatening to our climate.”

We talk about how when we change the narrative, it can have a dramatic impact. He shares data about the US coal index and how over the period from 2011-2022 it fell 99%. This wasn’t because we stopped using coal – but because the narrative around coal changed. Coal no longer has a long term future – the narrative has switched to coal fundamentally being an industry in decline. Leading to divestment in the fossil fuel industry and investment into smarter technologies.

Of course with profits at an all time high, it’s unlikely any fossil fuel industry isn’t going to continue making hay whilst the sun shines - Zach states that these companies have queues of customers coming out of their offices and all around many blocks. So the key isn’t to try and get the fossil fuel industry to change, which is unlikely to happen - but instead - to get to the people in the queues and make them aware that there is a better way, more financially viable, better for their personal environment, cleaner air etc - and of course, better for the planet.

“As you’re weighing up which personal actions you should take – look at the big pieces of your life, the gears that run your life in the background – the big weighty decisions – green your investments, move your money, move your energy – the good news is, once it’s done, it’s done.”

Latest research from Make your Money Matter reveals that the carbon footprint of FTSE100 pensions is 7 times higher than the total reported emissions of those companies! Yes, that’s right – the emissions financed by company pensions is 7x higher than the emissions produced by those businesses. And with £20BN invested in company pensions annually, as Zach states, instead of being invested in fossil fuels that money could be invested in things like clean technology and renewable energy instead. And that starts with you.

Take action, read more via Make your Money Matter here

Meanwhile, I’m sure you’ll enjoy the podcast, motivating, action focused and filled with lots of practical advice and direction.

More information about The Carbon Collective and Zach Stein here.

You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 41: Brainprint - The biggest impact of the industry of influence, Solitaire Townsend - Futerra

“As an industry we can go from seriously being part of the problem to leading the solution. We’re the final piece of the machine slotting into the climate movement, speeding up solutions. But we cannot be doing that whilst we’re also serving the destruction. We can’t do both. And that tension is growing every day.”

When we heard Solitaire’s Ted Talk, ‘Are ad agencies, PR firms and lobbyists destroying the climate?’ (which has almost 1.8million views), we were keen to pick her brains and share her wisdom.

Co-founder and Chief Solutionist at Futerra, (a title she switched from CEO to in line with her mission to be part of the solution), Solitaire has been championing sustainability in advertising and marketing since 2001. So we were thrilled when she accepted our invitation to have a chat about Industry X, climate change, brainprint, her story and impact so far, climate science, Race to Net Zero and her predictions and projections.

In this podcast there’s a lot we unpack - Solitaire is very clear that marketing, advertising and communications has indeed been a part of the problem - and now we have a significant opportunity to lead the transition. And we explore the practicalities of what that looks like.

As well as being a highly creative and successful business woman, Solitaire is also a self confessed climate geek. Her position in understanding the climate science alongside a deep awareness of the industry has led her to sit on many key advisory bodies.

Solitaire clearly explains the United Nations backed, Race to Zero initiative, how businesses can join the race to climate change, pledging carbon reduction commitments, in the same way countries have done via The Paris Agreement. This leads us to talk about the scopes of the carbon responsibility - and we touch on Scope 1, 2 and 3. Scope 3 being the one including the entire value chain - encompassing Brainprint. We go on to talk client disclosure reporting and transparency - and potential levels of discomfort some businesses have in revealing those. We also discuss the practicalities of carbon reduction - carbon impact calculations, offsetting, insetting, carbon removals and destruction. Like we said… there’s a lot we cover.

It’s a wonderful conversation - and Solitaire brings that wonderful balance of understanding both the industry and the science. One thing Solitaire is absolutely clear on…

“Marketing, communications and creativity is one of the industries that is going to make the transition to a low carbon economy faster and more efficient. All we have to do it change our minds!”

And you’ll love the closing quick fire 3 questions and answers.

Solitaire’s Ted Talk is here: Visit Futerra. Great article here too:

You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 40: Eco-Anxiety - The Courage to Stare Down the Truth, See the Good and Make it Grow - with Rob Harrison-Plastow

“Everything is completely interconnected - we’re not separate from nature, we are nature.”

It’s fair to say that Gemma and I were on a bit of a downer on the day we interviewed Rob Harrison-Plastow - Co-Founder of Time Agency, writer, and author of work in progress and soon to be published, ‘How to Be Happy at the End of the World.’ As you’ll hear, by the end of our conversation with Rob, whilst we discussed some of the pretty harsh realities of climate change, the challenges of the social constructs we’ve been born into, the pain, anxiety, lack of control, sense of being hoodwinked and of course… the fear we face personally and collectively in increasingly difficult times - we came away from the conversation, empowered, uplifted, invigorated, and most definitely hopeful. And our hope is that you will too.

We were introduced to Rob when tuning in to a podcast interview he did with Climate Scientist, Professor Tim Lenton ‘The End of Civilisation?’ (linked below). We explore some of Rob’s key takeaways from that interview, - including three different outcomes to the end of civilisation as we know it, and James Lovelock’s ‘Gaia Theory’ (now rebranded as ‘Earth Systems Science’) - effectively seeing the world as one interconnected, self-regulated system that we are all apart of.

Of course as marketers we talk about the role we play - the power of storytelling, and how we now need to tell new stories - stories that actually encourage us to reflect, think about what is truly going on and what truly serves us.

Without sugar coating the realities we face, Rob calmly, convincingly and eloquently shares advice and many practical antidotes to ‘eco-anxiety’ - reminding us all of the power of self, community and that we do have control, that we’re not mad, or on our own - but living through and are part of a significant paradigm shift. And whilst it can seem painful and difficult, it’s all part of expansion and shifting.

Our hope is that this podcast inspires and brightens your soul as much as it did ours. It’s one we’ll revisit time and time again. Enjoy…

You can find more information about Rob and the work he’s involved with here. And his Tim Lenton interview ‘The End of Civilisation?’ is here.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 39: The story and impact of an unusual chocolate bar - Ben Greensmith, UK, Lord Chocolonely III

“If people are aware… they can make a conscious choice.” 

When enjoying a delicious chocolate treat, like most, it’s unlikely you’ve pondered where the cocoa comes from, whether farmers have been paid fairly, or whether production is fuelled by child labour and modern slavery. The reality is that 1.6M children are working illegally on chocolate farms in Africa - and a minimum of 30,000 are kept as modern slaves. Sobering statistics that broadly haven’t changed that much over decades, and even centuries.

The good news is, Tony’s Chocolonely exists to change this.

In this podcast, Ben Greensmith, Lord Chocolonely III and UK and Ireland Country Manager for Tony’s Chocolonely, takes us back to 2003 and walks us through the inspiring backstory of how a curious and incensed journalist prosecuting himself in court led him to courageously take on the chocolate industry - building a brand and movement, that has become a leading exemplar of how chocolate can be produced ethically, sustainably and still profitably.

We discuss the crucial role business plays in solving some of the major issues we face as a society - and the role of marketing, particularly when it comes to consumer awareness. As Ben shares… “If people are aware…they can make a conscious choice’.

We also discuss levels of transparency across the industry - and how there are just too many empty promises and self-accreditations that are simply ‘greenwash’ - duping people into thinking they’re making better choices.

A key challenge is that there is currently no legislation around accountability and responsibility around traceability of where cocoa comes from. Ben shares how Tony’s have created a solution, their ‘5 Sourcing Principles’, a solution that they’re keen to help anyone copy.

Ben agrees fully with our sentiment that as marketers we need to be aware of the landscape we operate in and encourages marketers to be curious about the work they’re doing and supporting, encouraging marketers to do research, ask question - as he shares…

“In 40 years time, I want to be able to look back and be proud that I used my time and what I’m good at to make a difference.”

He also reminds us all not to forget just how powerful we are - every penny we spend and who we spend it with is a vote for how we want the future to be.

"Don’t think you’re too small to make a difference.”

This is truly eye-opening, inspirational and grounding discussion. Tune in… you’ll love it, probably as much as we love their chocolate. Yum ;)

More information about the wonderful work, products and movement here: https://tonyschocolonely.com/uk/en

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 38: Navigating the Sustainable Marketing Compass - a dedicated Strategic Framework - Paul Randle & Alexis Eyre

“If you didn’t have a marketing budget but you still had the same KPIs what would you do?” 

Great question… and one we explore further with founders of the Sustainable Marketing Compass, Alexis Eyre and Paul Randle.

We learn how the question… ‘Daddy is your job good for the environment?’ - led Paul to join the 8 week Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership course, where he met fellow marketer, Alexis Eyre. Determined to be part of the solution, rather than the problem, they recognised that marketing has a lot to add when it comes to behaviour change and using its skills, creativity and influence as a force for good. They also recognised that many of the traditional marketing tools and frameworks focus purely on commercial performance, and no consideration for environmental and societal performance - and so set out to bridge that vital gap with the development of their Sustainable Marketing Compass, a strategic framework that supports marketers step-by-step to reframe, rethink and reorientate marketing - driving creativity and innovation back into the heart of marketing.

There’s so much good stuff covered in this episode - it’s bursting with insight, enthusiasm, passion and useful takeaways. We talk about the parallels of digital transformation, about brand and disconnection, what marketing was, has become and what sustainable marketing is and most certainly isn’t.

There are some great examples shared around how marketers and brands are already rethinking their approach - getting out of treading water in the sea of sameness of performance or activated marketing, and instead or alongside, building solutions and services that truly consider the needs and painpoints of audiences, whilst differentiating and innovating.

We also touch on the impact of ‘brainprint’ - and how brands and marketers, need to consider the end to end societal and environmental impact of their campaigns and messaging - and how new benchmarks and measures of success need to be ingrained for healthier outcomes all round. Leading us to a key point of how sustainable marketing isn’t about marketing a sustainable message, but rather embedding sustainability into every single marketing decision and impact.

As the smart duo shares…

“It’s going to take radical transformation to make sustainable marketing work… start thinking properly transformational and properly innovative.”

It’s challenging but exciting times for marketers for sure - tune into this wonderfully insightful conversation… lots to learn - and be sure to go check out their Sustainable Marketing Compass to get started with your strategic planning. (You’ll find this in our Learning Zone too).

More information about Alexis and Paul and their Sustainable Marketing Company here: https://www.sustainablemarketingcompass.com/

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 37: Using the wisdom of the crowd to build a sustainability confidence score - with Adam Williams, Founder - Wherefrom

“If we chase perfection… we’ll lose.” 

Amongst the 455 (and some) eco labels and sparkling greenwash, how’s a person to figure out which products and brands they can truly have confidence in when wanting to make more sustainable and ethical choices in their shopping trolleys?  What can we trust? What can we understand?

When rushing round the supermarket aisles are we realistically going to scan QR codes and visit websites for the latest carbon calculations? Unlikely…

In this podcast we find out more about the innovative tech start-up ‘Wherefrom’ - where Adam Williams, Founder, tells us about their mission to ensure every product and company in the world has a ‘Wherefrom Score’. They’re the world’s first crowd-sourced sustainability review platform, comparing any company or product on a single scale.  

Likened to Trip Advisor, the platform enables people to score and review products and connect directly with brands – it also enables brands to claim their profile and provides opportunity for them to share sustainability credentials and respond and engage with reviewers directly and transparently. As a by-product, the platform provides useful data and insights for brands around consumer opinion which can help to inform the development of sustainability strategies.

Adam shares the back story of how Wherefrom came to be and how what started as a passion project has quickly transitioned into a scalable and useful resource that is adding value at the point of purchase for people. We talk about the practicalities of how the Wherefrom score works, the rigour and the responsibility.

What’s important for Wherefrom is ‘cross-over’ appeal – because to effect scale and wider impact, we need to extend far beyond the sustainability minded echo-chambers to help reach the majority of shoppers – to educate, get them rethinking and making better more informed choices.  

As we discussed with Helen Hepworth in a previous pod, the supermarkets, as gatekeepers,  also have a significant role to play in influencing better choices – and we discuss again, the need for the need for them to be more selective and responsible about what they stock.

We also cover the important role of finance and investment – and how investors need to move away from outmoded ways of assessing where to invest – and to invest more widely in the small, innovative, impact driven start-ups – to enable a sea-change in the number of social impact businesses moving from start-up to scale-up – and making a real difference to what business looks like and what it gives back to society.  

Visit Wherefrom.org – and you’ll be hit at every level with their ethos of, as Adam puts it… ‘doing sustainability with a big fat smile’. We found Wherefrom the day they ‘broke the internet’ with people sharing their hilarious (and brain worm inducing), ‘Stop the Wash’ music video – singing out the plethora of greenwash taglines, advising brands that given those lines were now part of their ‘song’, if used they would sue for copyright! ;) [if you missed it – it’s here]. And whilst there’s a lot of humour, fun, and mockery to be had to keep things light, interesting and of course, to aide mass appeal – the fun doesn’t detract from the serious mission they’re on, bringing the customer back into sustainability strategy and progress the behaviour change they’re pursuing and the heartfelt reminder to us all of the role we play and the choices we make.  

Tune in… and listen to Adam’s answer to our final ‘quick round’ question – and you’ll know what we’re talking about.

For more information about Wherefrom visit https://wherefrom.org/

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 36: Sustainable Media - Investing in content and channels that support greener, healthier, fairer education and behaviour.

Advertising and marketing has an important role to play in doing good in the world.’  Agree?

Well we certainly do – and in this episode, Guy Jones and Ollie - co-founders of The Goodnet, a sustainable media organisation, share their story, of how a pre-Christmas zoom drink sparked them moving away from their roles at one of the largest UK media organisations. Following their passion and values led the way to them championing sustainable media - making video ads / display ads / branded content partnerships available to advertisers across a network of sites that all operate in the sustainability space, to inspire and educate.

‘If more ad spend and marketing money is going towards publishers that produce loads of great content educating and inspiring people to live greener and healthier lives, it supports positive behaviour change.’

We discuss the complexity of sustainability – and how for marketers it’s a ‘mindset shift’ that’s required. Marketers need to make some pretty big decisions about moving away from doing what they have always done to finding alternative ways of driving more sustainable practice. Not just with the media channels they select and support, and calculating the percentage of carbon impact of campaigns, but also thinking hard about the product / service / lifestyle they’re actually advertising, in the context of wider aspects of sustainability, relating to health, wellbeing and fairer systems for all.   

“We need to see growth and performance but in a way that puts people and planet more to the fore than ever before.

Alongside talking about the practicalities of sustainable media, we discuss the realities of greenhushing and greenwashing, regulation in the industry, and as always, the role and responsibility of the marketer.  Discussing how we build demand, awareness and by proxy fund the media owners. And whilst Ollie and Guy state that it’s complex – they’re clear that it’s a complexity that needs to be embraced and change needs to happen – change around the types of products that are being marketed and the types of narratives around those products and services…

“The prize is hundreds of millions of people living their lives differently and more sustainably than how we live now”.

Tune in, you don’t want to miss this – it’s a conversation filled with practical advice, support, ideas, passion and importantly, hope.

For more information about The Goodnet visit https://wearethegoodnet.com/

Our podcasts are currently being recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 35: FMCG - How sustainability starts with us, the shopper - Helen Hepworth, Director - Collective Stories

“The fastest accelerator in FMCG is the shopper… “

  We loved this conversation with Helen Hepworth, Director of Collective Stories – a - Category Management and Shopper Insight Consultancy

 Helen’s been an FMCG expert for many years, working with a number of retailers, with a passion for product and category management. In this conversation we discuss the role shoppers and retailers play in driving positive impact when it comes to sustainability – and of course, the role marketing plays.

 There’s so much packed into this 30 minute interview, we talk about shopping habits, consumption journeys and behaviour - how things are changing, discussing concepts such as circularity and refillable stations – and how it’s critical for retailers to think about how they involve the customer to support their own desires for more sustainable behaviour. That leads us to the concept of the retailers as gatekeepers, and why it’s important they ‘sell well’ to support people making good choices – and how loyalty cards and private label are powerful drivers in supporting sustainability, with some great examples from Tesco and Boots.

 There are some big questions raised – particularly about when it comes to product and category management – and how brands and marketing have driven so much choice. Do we need it all? And how will refillable stations, naturally narrowing choice, reducing confusion and involving customer – impact how products and categories are managed and developed or ‘de-developed’ as we move forward? That leads us into a conversation about collaboration and partnerships and discussing brands and retailers that are getting it right.

From Helen’s perspective…whilst it’s so important to celebrate all progress…

 “Nobody has got this – journeys have started, started and veered off, started because they are looking for competitive advantage, rather than being the right thing to do – we need to do better.”

 This pod is an information and insights packed episode, let’s face it, we’re all part of the FMCG world, just look around our homes at all the products, labels, brands etc – and to that end, Helen is consistent about the power of the shopper

 “FMCG could absolutely could do more. It starts with us – the shopper and then cascades UP.”

Tune in… you’re going to love it. We certainly did. For more information about Helen and Collective Stories visit https://www.collectivestories.co.uk.

Our podcasts are currently being recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.