Can Marketing Save the Planet?

Episode 54: – As Citizens we really have a much bigger (and more important) role to play in the world! with Jon Alexander

 

“How can organisations treat people as citizens, not just as consumers? How can organisations invite people into their agency and creativity to shape the world and not just sell them stuff?”

 

When Jon Alexander, author of the brilliant book ‘Citizens’ joined us on Can Marketing Save the Planet, we got straight into those questions! The subject story, the consumer story (where we are right now), and the citizen story, (the place we need to get to). Jon explained how we are currently trying to solve such disconnect from within the consumer story - “you just can’t solve an inequality crisis from a story of competition and status, or a story that says humans are separate from nature.” And, “What are we doing to ourselves when we constantly call ourselves consumers?”

The citizen story is all about taking ownership and getting involved, with everyone participating sharing their ideas, creativity and energy. And why is that so important, well because as Jon puts it, “all of us are smarter than any of us.”

We talk about the role marketing has played in the consumer story and what it will take to mobilise people in a different direction. Jon is a massive advocate for giving people space, ‘cognitive oxygen’ - and believes we can’t even begin to look at the role marketing plays until we stop and allow people to pause and think. He raises that perhaps we need to look at where marketing shouldn’t be in people’s lives, asking, “should there be a limit on advertising to children, and limits on outdoor advertising and product placement?” Jon thinks these kind of conversations are powerful and interesting, both for people and organisations, and we were in absolute agreement, these are the kind of conversations which bring about transformational thinking and change.

We delved into what the role of marketing might be in the citizen story. Jon believes the people in marketing can play a series of important roles, but people ‘need to be treated as participants in the process’, an area Marketers need to focus in on more. We raised questions such as ‘what happens when you give people a role and how do you collaborate and co-create to give people solutions that matter?’ We talked community, hearts and minds and the process of ‘respect, connect, reflect and only then direct’.

Jon shares story after story, packed with ideas, insights and stuff that not only motivates, but will make you smile. The idea of a future based on the Citizen story is one which fills us with hope and joy, and one where we can dare to imagine a fairer, better and more sustainable future.

There is so much to take in, so we’ll leave you to tune in and reflect.

For more on Jon and his work visit…https://www.jonalexander.net/

And the How to Citizen project he shared with us via Baratunde - see ‘How to Citizen’ here https://www.howtocitizen.com/

Episode 53: – Marketing - A Critical Changemaker - with Andy Last, Executive Partner, Purpose and Sustainability, MullenLowe

 

“It doesn’t always come in through the marketing door, but marketing is where the greatest change can be driven.”

 

In this episode of, Can Marketing Save the Planet we spoke to Andy Last, Executive Partner, Purpose and Sustainability from MullenLowe, an end-to-end communications and creative services agency. Part of the MullenLow Group, who believe, ‘purpose is nothing without progress’, and we couldn’t agree more. We are in the definitive decade and progress at scale and pace is needed now more than ever. 

We naturally discussed purpose, as sustainability continues to rise up the agenda and how purpose is misused and diluted, but also how it is often forgotten as organisations get swept away and distracted with so much going on and the need to focus on profit taking over. Andy explained, “if it stays in CSR and Corporate communication then it isn’t getting into the heart of the business, and that’s where the power comes from.”

The landscape is changing, innovation is changing, sentiment is changing and marketers need to be taking back the intelligence for strategic intent as this is where so much of the opportunity lies. Andy gave great examples such as Lifebuoy Soap (they invented the word BO) and how once their beliefs and actions were truly embedded into the heart of the brand and core purpose, gave way to brilliant innovations such as a liquid hand soap which turned green once children had washed their hands for more than 30 seconds. This connection back to their purpose which is to ‘make handwashing and sanitising a simple part of everyday routines.’ is what makes it real and measurable.

But, it’s not an easy path to navigate, Andy went on to talk about how “marketers have to understand the markets in which their products are operating is changing, and then to understand how to talk about them, but how to talk about them is becoming increasingly complex, because of accusations of greenwashing and legislation. And marketers have this difficult job of treading a path between these accusations of greenwashing, and not saying anything.”

We talked about who is doing well, and what drove those organisations to be the first movers. How brands have taken on social issues and knitted them into their business models with very clear benefits to both business and society.

Looking inwards, Andy also talked about the structural piece, and how important it is in order to make anything happen. There is a need for incentives, but ones which go beyond rewards, and are ‘part of the job’. We have to be educated and responsible, it’s in all of our roles to change the course we are on.

The theme of Marketers as changemakers continues… another great episode, with so many inspiring examples, grab a coffee and tune in!

And for more about MullowLowe - see here: https://www.mullenlowegroup.com/

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 52: Marketing, Mindset Shifts and the Pursuit of a Purpose Upgrade, with Paul Skinner (Part 2)

“ The world doesn’t need what we do at the moment, we can’t continue the way we are. We need to adapt and look at long term need and deliver valuable solutions.”

Aligned with the latest IPCC report, the message is clear on so many levels that we can’t keep doing what we do and making minor tweaks - transformational and urgent action is what’s required, and that’s going to require a collaborative approach.

Timely indeed for Part 2 of our conversation with Paul Skinner, Author, Founder of MarketingKind and Agency of the Future, prior to Paul writing ‘The Purpose Upgrade - Change your business to save the world, Change the world to save your business’ - published another brilliant work, ‘Collaborative Advantage - How Collaboration Beats Competition as a Strategy for Success’. In this second part of the conversation, we explore Paul’s immense knowledge in this area, diving into competitive -v- collaborative advantage.

There’s so much packed into these two 30 minute episodes, if you missed Part 1 - then we urge you to tune in… and if you loved Part 1, then dive straight into Part 2 and continue to be inspired .

Follow Paul Skinner via LinkedIn

Join the MarketingKind Community (we highly recommend this for all Marketers)

Find out more about Paul’s books and work at Agency of the Future

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 52: Marketing, mindset shifts and the pursuit of a purpose upgrade, with Paul Skinner

“ We need to route purpose in solving important solutions, developing meaningful solutions and reaching inclusive worthwhile outcomes that mobilise everyone we need in pursuit of that purpose.”

Our interview with Paul Skinner, Author, Founder of MarketingKind and Agency of the Future, is just soooo good, we’re doing it twice! In Part 1, Paul introduces the work he’s doing - and we dive into his latest book, ‘The Purpose Upgrade - Change your business to save the world, Change the world to save your business’.

Paul shares so much wisdom, we talk about how the nature of the problems humanity faces have become increasingly serious and urgent. To tackle them we can’t remain shackled in fixed thinking - “actions that gave rise to prior success, are the very things leading to tomorrow’s failures”.

What’s called for is a Purpose Upgrade. And we explore, reasons why purpose has fallen short, what’s required to upgrade purpose, reflecting and thinking about the bigger problems we need to solve and what that’s really going to take.

There’s so much packed into these two 30 minute episodes, Paul shares his vast wisdom, in his usual eloquent manner. Gemma and I found ourselves just nodding away, because he just makes so much sense, and is able to articulate it with a narrative and so many examples and much lived experience that inspires one to get excited about getting on board with a purpose upgrade.

Paul reminds us that, “we want marketing to take responsibility for developing much bigger stories of meaning and purpose that take stakeholders to a much better place” - and that as marketers we need to remain mindful that regardless of how great the stories we tell may be, “what’s more important are the stories our stakeholders tell each other. As marketers there’s opportunity for us to curate the stories that bring positive change to all our stakeholders - so no only do we need to get better at story telling, but also, story listening, story finding, story tuning, story editing - and of course ensuring we truly live up to our stories”.

Trust us… start with your Purpose Upgrade today, tune in, be inspired (and then catch Part 2 in a couple of weeks).

Follow Paul Skinner via LinkedIn

Join the MarketingKind Community (we highly recommend this for all Marketers)

Find out more about Paul’s books and work at Agency of the Future

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 51: Green Claims - The Challenge of Sustainable Consumption with Oliver Bealby-Wright, Consumers International

“Marketers need to get into the nitty gritty and learn about lifecyle assessments and how they are used, their limitations and their advantages, it might seem boring - but it’s really, really important.”

In this episode, we’re joined by Oliver-Bealby-Wright, Lead, Consumers in the Energy System who formerly led Consumers International’s GreenCommerce project in 2022 on improving consumer sustainability information. Consumers International is a membership body with over 200 members across 100 countries, dedicated to defending the rights of consumers.

Oliver shares their whole systems approach, working across critical areas - considering labelling, data, the information lifecyle alongside the product lifecycle, ecommerce and the digital environment, where digital nudging can support, but also considering the risk, greenwashing and misleading claims and the role of retailers and consumers.

We cover A LOT, and Oliver shares a very comprehensive overview of the scale of the challenges, but also the scale of the opportunity.

“Marketing has a big role to play in making information ‘sing’. “

All the time we bring the context back to marketing and communication, and Oliver is clear that marketing has a big part to play - but that there aren’t really any short cuts when it comes to transparency, substantiation and understanding regulation and where principles and policies are justified and where they are not. “it’s about education and upskilling - there are no short cuts.” And we couldn’t agree more.

Oliver shares that sustainable consumption is a basic right of consumers and of course, whilst consumers have an important role to play towards a fair and accountable transition to net zero, so too do retailers and so we discuss their role as gatekeepers, the challenge of compliance by design and the risks and opportunity of ecommerce, micro-targeting and personalised messaging.

When it comes to collaboration, there’s a need for many bodies and actors to be working cohesively to not only create coherent policies - but then to be translated into practice, no simple task given there is just so much room for interpretation. And that leads us to data, innovation and unusual partnerships.

“More transparency alone is not going to get us there – it’s not going to close the intention action gap, which is even more true in online shopping environments than in person. Some folks are doing interesting things, layering information in the online environment, simplifying choices along the consumer journey to avoid information overload - because when things become too complex or there’s just too much to navigate through, people switch off . And if they switch off, they’re never going to reach the important and useful information that matters.”

Trust us… there’s just so much wisdom and so many takeaways in this conversation.

Listen in for yourself, tell us what you think… share your viewpoints. We love to hear what’s landed for you - or what you agree with, disagree with.

Useful links:

If you want to get involved in the UN One Planet Network programme Oliver mentions - see here: https://www.unep.org/explore-topics/resource-efficiency/what-we-do/one-planet-network

For more about Consumers International - visit https://www.consumersinternational.org/

Connect with Oliver Bealby-Wright - https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliver-bealby-wright-56645b15a/

Finally, since recording CI published a few reports during the World Economic Forum - see below

• The State of Sustainability Information which assesses the critical trends and trade-offs in sustainability information provision and emerging policy solutions

• Action Agenda: Informing sustainable consumer choices in e-commerce which provides three strategic, collaborative actions for e-commerce platforms to improve the product sustainability information on their sites

• Policy Action Framework: Improving Product Sustainability Information in E-Commerce which provides a suite of cross-cutting actions for governments

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 50: Integrating ESG why it’s not a reporting challenge but a strategic challenge - with Professor Ioannis Ioannou

“The best companies look at their ESG disclosures as a type of social contract to tell the world, why they are here, what they are trying to achieve as a business, why the world is arguably a better place because they are here. ESG disclosure is an opportunity for an organisation to show how it is creating value - financial value and non-financial value.”

It was an absolute privilege to have some time talking all things ESG with Professor Ioannis Ioannou from London Business School. Ioannis through his work and research is a leading academic, consultant and leading expert around ESG integration.

As the title outlines, Ioannis explained why integrating ESG is not a reporting challenge but a strategic challenge. We kick off talking about changing demands, expectations, preferences of key stakeholders - employees, customers, social movements, activists, investors - the requirement for more accountability and transparency - and how these are all major disruptions for businesses.

“There is a global cost correction embedded in ESG - and it’s time to pay the bill”.

What’s clear is that the ESG journey and related organisational change is far from linear and simple. What were once thought of as challenges that governments were going to take care of have fast become core business issues. As businesses are getting to grips with how they organise themselves, there needs to be room for experimentation and vulnerability.

Ioannis tells us that… ‘It’s hard to identify an audience that wouldn’t care what you’re doing about ESG these days’ and talks about ESG being a catalyst in three critical areas:

• Operational excellence - efficiencies

• Strategic excellence - future proofing the organisation

• Cultural excellence - aligning purpose, innovation, employee engagement

We talk about the importance of authentic communication and an interesting take on the ‘silver lining’ of greenwashing. And he’s clear that… “You cannot fake your way towards caring about the world.”

Gemma and I were keen to unpack ESG to get clarity about where we are with it right now, is it enough and where it’s heading. And of course, the role of communication - and how organisations bring their ESG to life to connect with key stakeholders in a meaningful way that connects and engages.

This is an informative and useful discussion and Ioannis shares his depth of knowledge and expertise and does an absolutely brilliant job of making an extremely complex and fast moving topic highly understandable and relatable.

“ESG is very fast moving, with proposals on the table to mandate it - ESG rating and rankings are trying to capture a moving target”.

Since recording the ISSB have advised that sustainability reporting alongside financial reporting is likely to be mandatory in 2024. (Link below). And we’ve shared a number of links to articles that have chimed with us and helped us navigate our thinking.

It’s just filled with ESG gold - go listen.

For more about Ioannis Ioannou - you will find his LBS profile, his personal website and he’s also very active on Twitter:

https://www.london.edu/faculty-and-research/faculty-profiles/i/ioannou-i

http://ioannou.us/

https://twitter.com/iioannoulbs

Additional article links:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/international-sustainability-standards-board-issb-upcoming-conal-love/

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/corporate-documents/strategy-positive-change-our-esg-priorities

https://www.edie.net/from-nature-restoration-to-social-equity-provision-seven-big-esg-trends-to-look-out-for-in-2023/?

https://impactentrepreneur.com/esg-or-sustainability-you-choose

https://plana.earth/academy/why-esg-important-companies-investors

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/climate-business-would-esg-aligned-thinking-help-wave-jordanova/

Enjoy and learn… yet again… we certainly did. #neverstoplearning

Episode 49: Purpose Disruptors - What agencies can do when agencies have agency

 

“Incremental change isn’t going to work. It's time to move now from shallow small change to systemic change at speed.”

What a way to kick off conversations with marketing pros for 2023 with not one, but three courageous pacesetters leading the way and shaking things up and shining a light on the necessary change required in the advertising industry.

Lisa Merrick Lawless, Rob McFaul and Jonathan Wise, Co-Founders of Purpose Disruptors, an organisation and movement challenging the ad industry to move towards being in service of a thriving future for all.

Diving into latest updates from their advertised emissions research they showcase how in 2019 advertised emissions equated to 186M tonnes and how in 2022, their recent research has seen an 11% increase in advertised emissions in UK… “The more advertising there is, the more sales, the more advertised emissions.”

Findings show that all sectors however, are not equal when it comes to advertised emissions. For example, the automotive industry at only 6% ad spend, actually drives 30% of advertised emissions. Other carbon intensive categories include flying and red meat. The share the idea and radical invitation for the ad industry to come together to ask the government to ban advertising for these carbon intensive industries.

“Can we accept that change requires us to stop things. If the industry can come to terms with that, then we have a great opportunity to let new possibilities come through.”

From our conversation a year ago we revisit progress with regards to their Good Life citizen research and it’s exciting to hear more about their campaign around exploring what 2030 could look like, The Future 2030 campaigns and how they’re exploring business models that require transformational Horizon Three Thinking.

Trust us there is so much wisdom and so many practical insights in this conversation. Far too many to summarise here in the show notes - so our advice is - tune in, you’ll be so glad you did - we guarantee you’ll have questions, feel challenged (in a good way) and be totally inspired to take action.

For more about Purpose Disruptors, their research, meet ups and invitations to get involved visit www.purposedisruptors.org. And for more about The Good Life visit www.goodlife2030.earth

Enjoy and learn… we certainly did .

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 48: Can Marketing Save the Planet? The Story So Far…

“Sustainability is making marketing exciting again…”

Gemma and I are used to asking the questions on our Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast - but in this episode, we were interviewed for a live ‘MarketingKind Digital Fireside’ session hosted by Caroline Taylor, sustainable marketing trailblazer and former CMO at IBM - together with the wonderful founders of Marketing Kind and a great bunch of marketers.

For those of you that don’t know about MarketingKind… it’s a community of business leaders, marketers and change-makers who come together to make marketing mean more.

You’ll hear us talk about why we wrote our book, what we’ve learned over the past couple of years as our work and worlds have become more embodied in driving education and awareness and necessary change within the marketing profession. What’s surprised us, disheartened us, encouraged us, what we’re teaching, how, where, why - and what’s to come.

It was fun being on this side of the interview for a change - and there was lots to glean from everyone involved in this juicy conversation.

Tune in - enjoy. And for more… be sure to follow, subscribe to our Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast, check out our site and stay connected here.

To find out more and join the MarketingKind community - more info here:

A great way to kick off our 2023 podcast - and needless to say, we’ve got plenty more fantastic guests coming up…

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 47: ‘Start Measuring your Marketing Carbon Impact Now’ with Jo Young, Managing Director at Unifida

 

“If you double your marketing budget, you don’t necessarily get double the sales because of diminishing returns, but when it comes to carbon emissions, doubling your budget, may not just double but quadruple your CO2 emissions. As marketers we need to understand the impact of our plans and activities and consider a new set of priorities and KPIs.”

 

And we couldn’t agree more…

As you’ll hear in this podcast interview with Jo Young, Managing Director at Unifida, Gemma and I were keen to find out more about how their data and carbon counter is helping marketers to green their marketing by understanding the carbon impact of their planned activities.

Whenever we talk about and teach Sustainable Marketing, Gemma and I always revisit the key fact that as marketers, our objectives are aligned with organisational objectives - and so when organisations are setting decarbonisation targets, it’s critical that marketers understand the responsible role they play in supporting those targets. Marketers are often managing some of the largest budgets within an organisation, and so in that endeavour, not only do we need to be considering traditional ROI, but also considering how we drive positive commercial impact to the business, whilst ensuring we’re working within the boundaries of those wider organisational targets to ensure we don’t blow the decarbonisation budget.

In order to do that efficiently, we have to understand where we are and understand the carbon impact of the activities we have done and are planning - this then enables us to make informed choices, consider priorities and drives creativity and innovation in where, when, what and how we market and communicate. And this is exactly where Unifida’s Carbon Counter steps in.

Jo shares with us the practicalities of their carbon counter, the research and scrutiny that’s gone into validating the resource, how it works, what it measures (above and below the line) - and shares insights with us about how marketers are starting to measure the carbon impact of marketing activities to better understand the levers they need to pull to do a better job in supporting wider organisational targets.

Jo talks about the third dimension… ‘marketers need to consider cost of sale, sales and now carbon emissions’.

If getting your head around how to green your marketing activity (and as you’ll hear from Jo, it’s an increasingly sought after endeavour), then tune in, take a listen to what’s possible via the tool, and explore some of the data findings Jo and her team share on their site.

For more information visit https://unifida.co.uk/ - and to connect with Jo - her LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joyoung2/

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Episode 46: ‘Speak Up Now - Marketing in times of climate crisis’ - creating credible Storylines with Author and Strategist - Wim Vermeulen

 

Do you ask yourself as a marketer, “with all the decisions I took today, did I accelerate the transition to net zero, or slow it down? If the conclusion at the end of the day is that you slowed it down - well you really don’t want to be there. Accelerating the transition is where marketers need to be.”

Wim advises that all marketers should ‘put the planet in the room’ - literally. Tune in to the third question we ask all guests in our round up - as to how this action changes everything.

It’s a fantastic discussion - with loads of takeaways… we talk science, language, communication and more with Wim Vermeulen, Director of Strategy and Sustainability at Bubka, and author of ‘Speak up Now! Marketing in Times of Climate Crisis’. A book Wim felt he had to write so he could share all his learnings through the work he’s been doing with the University of Ghent around when and how climate communication is successful and when it’s not.

From his research across a range of sectors reviewing the language and impact of sustainability focused storylines and campaigns - the findings show that there’s a huge credibility gap in every sector - only 9.7% of sustainable campaigns are actually credible. The fact that over 90% of people don’t believe sustainability storylines led the research team to dissect what actually does drive credibility. Wim shares 5 key drivers - and you really don’t want to miss what he has to say around these. As they are critical drivers for marketers to consider with every brief or project.

Wim highlights the need to not only look at ‘supply side’, but equally urgent, the ‘demand side’, and how a conversation he had with IPCC lead author Prof. Dr. Felix Creutzig explained the need for, ‘social norming of sustainable consumption, and the global reductions that can bring.’ Addressing the ‘demand side’ is something that cannot be ignored, but as Wim explained, “in 2021, in Europe, 48% of products launched were climate friendly, but then, if you look a pricing across industries and products, the average premium for a climate friendly product is 75-85%, so that’s now a choice.” Wim goes on to explain that, “Bain calculated the average cost to decarbonise a product was less than 5% of the total cost on average”. This goes against the objective of changing behaviours as once again price becomes the default reason for purchase, demand isn’t being created for climate friendly products in the way that it should be and, profit is being placed over planet and people.

Sometimes as marketers, our need to call something by a different name to make it stand out, or more impactful can actually do more harm than good, and when the need for everyone to move in the same direction is so critical, we cannot afford there to be confusion, as it slows progress.

“We need to stop inventing terms. Everything has been defined by scientists. Trust the science. There are 10 key terms - defined by climate scientists, that’s the Bible - use it!”

There is so much in this episode as Wim talks through some examples of organisations who are leading the way, leadership and once again the role of marketing and communications is highlighted as critical in moving us towards a more sustainable future. So, tune in and have a listen!!

For more about Wim’s work, books, research and documentaries visit https://www.wimvermeulen.com/

________________________________________________________

You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and if you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.